1-on-1: Bulls-Celtics, Part 2
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THIS WEEK'S TOPIC A look at the Celtics-Bulls series, with Boston leading Chicago, 3-2. |
Dave: nervous?
Donovan: a little
Donovan: I kind of feel like last night was it
Donovan: even if the Bulls win game 6, game 7 in Boston is a tall task
Dave: i thought last night was it, too
Dave: down 11 in the fourth, i was fully prepared to come in here today and make the argument that it wasn't even worth the celtics pushing it to 7 because they aren't going anywhere anyway
Dave: but then they reeled me right back in
Donovan: and not that it would ever be called in front of the home crowd, but that was the definition of a flagrant foul last night
Dave: what?
Dave: are you serious?
Dave: that was exactly what Doc said it was: "A playoff foul"
Donovan: when Rondo grabbed Brad Miller's face? um, yeah
Donovan: here's the thing: he didn't slap his face. he wrapped his hand around the face
Donovan: but again, game's in Boston, after all the whining the C's have done about the refs this series, no ref is going to make that call
Dave: firstly, the refs have sucked all series
Dave: both ways
Dave: and secondly, watch the replay at full speed; you'll see that was rondo's only play
Dave: if he's there a 10th of a second earlier he comes down on his arm
Dave: just the timing
Donovan: he missed the ball by about a foot and a half, and continued with the swipe and then, and this is key, wraps his hand around miller's face
Dave: you make it sound like he gave him the mandible claw, from the old wwf days
Donovan: and Charles Barkley agrees
Dave: he had to make sure there was no and-one
Dave: the only way to do that is to give a hard foul
Dave: granted, he was not going for the ball
Donovan: well, you can't grab a guy by the face as he goes up for a shot
Donovan: that's what it comes down to
Dave: agreed
Dave: and that's why the whistle blew
Dave: 2 shots
Dave: make them, and it's double ot
Dave: simple as that
Donovan: you can blow a call after the whistle
Dave: where's your outrage toward brad miller?
Dave: he makes those, the bulls go to another OT without ray allen
Donovan: it's funny, with about 4 minutes left I almost sent you a "Brad Miller, MVP" text
Donovan: he was having a great game until that point
Dave: brad miller, as a celtics fan, scares the crap out of me
Donovan: it boggles the mind how a guy that size can hit threes, but not free throws
Dave: i thought he'd make both
Donovan: granted, no one punched him in the face before those threes
Dave: someone should've punched him in the face after he threw himself in front of ray and got him fouled out
Dave: what a joke of a play/call that was
Donovan: my theory on that is that Allen was getting a soccer-style call for flopping
Donovan: because it wasn't a foul on either guy, but Allen acted like a fish in the bottom of the boat trying to get the whistle on Brad
Dave: it was a moving screen
Dave: if miller stays still — as the rules dictate — ray runs around him and the play continues
Donovan: I don't think that was enough to get Ray out of the game. but it's pretty hard with this Celtics team, since they are such a flopping team
Donovan: has Big CryBaby been giving lessons?
Dave: rondo flops
Dave: i'll give you that
Donovan: in all seriousness, I think part of Pierce's problem this entire series - last night excepted - is that he's obsessed with the calls he's not getting
Dave: rose flops, gordon flops, and noah is the biggest drama queen in the nba
Donovan: he plays hard
Donovan: he's the Youkilis of the NBA
Donovan: Gordon got slammed on his head, that's not really flopping
Dave: well, that wasn't a flop
Dave: but rose got bailed out with one flop, then tried it again on the same possession and they correctly called it out of bounds
Donovan: yeah, that was the right call
Donovan: shockingly
Donovan: so Gordon is an unrestricted FA after this season. what are your thoughts on him?
Donovan: as a neutral observer
Dave: after this series i'm not neutral
Dave: guy is a superstar
Dave: i definitely didn't think that way going into this series, but he is a legitimate big-game scorer
Donovan: he drives me nuts
Donovan: he's a double-edged sword, because he can score at will at times, but when he gets a hot hand, everything else goes out the window
Donovan: as we saw in game 4, where he hit two big shots, then over-dribbled his way into a potential game-losing turnover
Donovan: and then of course hit that huge three
Donovan: Gordon in a nutshell
Dave: yeah, i can see what you're saying
Dave: if he's cold, he doesn't appear to bring much else to the table
Donovan: exactly
Dave: but by being red-hot, i think he's made himself a crapload of money this week
Donovan: oh yeah
Donovan: no question
Donovan: if the Bulls somehow win this series, they basically have to resign him
Dave: absolutely
Dave: they may want to anyways
Dave: i wouldnt mess too much with their good, young nucleus
Donovan: yeah, I worry about how his presence affects Rose
Donovan: because Gordon tends to take over the offense at times
Donovan: and I think del negro needs to make it clear that the offense begins with Rose whenever he's on the floor
Donovan: half-court offense
Dave: but if they let gordon walk, what's the plan then?
Dave: heinrich and rose both start?
Dave: that would significantly hurt the offense
Donovan: Rose, Salmons, Deng, Thomas, Noah
Dave: salmons is no gordon
Donovan: no
Donovan: and that weakens the bench
Donovan: I don't know enough about the NBA to know what their options would be
Donovan: but you're right about the nucleus, because I think this team is very close to being very good, and they can't risk a step backwards
Dave: exactly
Dave: you look at where they've come even since the trade deadline, when it wasnt clear if they were buyers or sellers, to now being a legit threat to everyone but cleveland in the east
Dave: id be excited as a bulls fan
Dave: ...for next year
Dave: this series, not so much
Donovan: yeah. even if they pull out this series, they're not getting past cleveland (nor are the Celtics, by the way).
Dave: no, it's going to be cleveland and the lakers in the finals
Dave: without question
Dave: they should just skip the rest of the playoffs, except for the fact it would've cost us the greatest series of our nba lifetime
Dave: which i'm convinced this is
Donovan: this has been a seven game series in five games
Donovan: I'm trying to remember a better one. I remember the Suns-Bulls finals being great, but nothing like three overtimes
Dave: yeah, that was great
Dave: but that only went six, didnt it?
Donovan: thanks to John Paxson
Dave: the celtics had jim paxson
Dave: fun fact
Donovan: wasn't he a lousy GM as well?
Donovan: for cleveland?
Dave: yeah, but i think he drafted lebron
Dave: so give him credit
Donovan: that was a tough call
Dave: ha
Donovan: so is Rondo going to be this good from now on?
Donovan: are we looking at a Big Four next season?
Dave: yeah, rondo has been approaching this point for a while
Dave: last year he played really well 1 of 2 games; this year it was more like 2 of 3
Dave: but he's made the leap in this series
Dave: he loves playing against the best point guards, and i think rose has brought out the best in him
Donovan: that's for sure
Dave: if rondo ever develops a jumper, watch out
Donovan: I hope Rose goes through the same growth
Dave: rose is more of a scorer
Dave: but rondo is a really good defender, so the fact rose is still scoring shows me how good that guy is going to/can be
Donovan: I'd like to see him rebound like rondo. that guy is so annoying to watch because he always seems to swoop in for an offensive board against like three defenders
Dave: yeah he's great at that, too
Dave: looking five or six years down the line, i just hope the celtics continue to put guys around him
Dave: i think with him, perkins, big baby, and powe, they have a decent core
Dave: but if they let kg, allen and pierce retire without making sure they are replaced, they're going to waste the prime of rondo
Donovan: Big Baby:Celtics::Noah:Bulls
Dave: do you really hate big baby as much as everyone hates noah?
Donovan: no, maybe not
Donovan: but everyone here hates big baby
Donovan: and I totally understand the hate for Noah, but he's had a great series too
Dave: if he went by "Glen" would he be such a lightning rod?
Donovan: I think it's more the clobbering Miller in the face and then taking a dive afterward, which almost got Miller kicked out
Dave: yeah, he does that from time to time
Dave: but he's been a key for the celtics in this series
Dave: they don't win game 2 without him
Donovan: as has noah
Donovan: I wonder if the league will have the guts to suspend rondo and howard
Dave: there's no way they suspend rondo
Dave: not even discussed
Donovan: of course not
Dave: i bet howard gets a game
Donovan: switch their uniforms, and switch the punishments
Donovan: I loved, LOVED, ESPN playing up the whole "one ref lives in Chicago" angle yesterday afternoon
Dave: it was two refs who lived in chicago working Game 4
Donovan: it's the third largest city in the country, there's a lot of people that live here
Dave: i can't say the celtics have been screwed; but i don't think you can say the bulls have been screwed, either
Dave: the nba officiating sucks
Dave: has all year
Donovan: I agree
Donovan: but how do I say this
Donovan: I think the bad calls have gone against the Bulls at bigger moments
Donovan: game 1, that crap call against noah on pierce's shot
Donovan: last night against miller
Dave: how about the 5-second call that was ignored in game 4, then pierce getting called for a foul when it should've been a game-clinching steal?
Dave: game 1 ... the BULLS WON
Donovan: I know, but only because Pierce millered a free throw
Dave: love the new verb!
Dave: when i drink my next MGD, it won't be until i miss the recycling bin with my empty that it truly becomes "miller time"
Donovan: haha
Donovan: he's probably encouraging the flagrant foul storyline, trying to get off the hook
Donovan: he should have just dunked it from the free-throw line
Dave: or, knowing they're never going to give you a layup in that situation, hit the 15 footer
Dave: guy's made a career on mid-range jumpers
Donovan: yeah, I don't know what he was thinking
Donovan: maybe he was thinking, "Why did Vinnie draw up a play for me in this situation?"
Donovan: which is what I was thinking
Dave: i thought it was pretty well-designed
Dave: nobody was expecting it
Dave: del negro probably wanted a jumper, though
Donovan: he was open, but he was also brad miller
Donovan: that's fine if you're tied, I think, but if absolutely need a make, I think you look to Gordon or Rose
Dave: don't forget, the celts had already called a timeout to see what the set up was going to be
Dave: so this was likely Plan B
Dave: (speaking of del negro, when he gets fired up and his jacket starts bouncing around, he looks just like the coach of the bad guys in a terrible, cliche basketball movie)
Donovan: fair enough
Donovan: shades of Jordan to Wennington to win it at MSG
Dave: see, even His Airness shared the big moments every now and again
Dave: wennington, paxson, kerr...
Donovan: he knew what he had to do to win
Dave: miller could've put his name in that category
Dave: because i think if he ties the game there, the bulls win it in the second OT again
Donovan: yeah, without Allen
Dave: the celtics were relying on tony freaking allen at that point
Dave: the guy is a terrible basketball player
Donovan: Ray's absence made that end much easier to watch, because I wasn't constantly waiting for him to hit a clutch wide-open three
Dave: yeah, and it made pierce's shots even more remarkable
Dave: everybody knew they were coming, and he still got to his spots
Donovan: right, that last shot, everyone knew it
Donovan: except Salmons, who just kept backpedalling
Dave: true
Dave: so i think we agree: celts win this series?
Donovan: yeah, I say in 7
Donovan: although we'll find out early on in game 6 if the bulls are going to take it the distance, or if last night took it out of them
Dave: i think it did
Dave: i think it's Cs in 6, and they win tomorrow night going away
Dave: last night was just so demoralizing for the bulls, from losing an 11-point lead, to getting beat with allen on the bench, to the miller free throws
Dave: that's tough to come back from
Donovan: yeah, that's a lot to overcome. but if they convince themselves that they got screwed on the call, that could be inspirational
Dave: yeah, that's true; i guess teams make things up all the time to create a spark
Donovan: just ask Rodney Harrison
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